- Oct 6, 2017
- Reaction score
- North America
Wow, I had no idea changes could happen that fast at 90f. I was thinking weeks, not days.
Well if the OP is not storing his LME correctly, they are at least getting to enjoy 80+ degree weather in October/November
The paragraph in the link I provided also mentioned warehouses and trucks. Was the LME stored correctly at home? Was the LME stored correctly in the warehouse for a short period of time? Was the LME stored correctly during shipping to the house? to the warehouse?storing [...] LME correctly
Agreed - pasteurization is my friend when brewing. I can't speak for all the recipes in those articles, many of the ones that I saw did "hop stands" (170F for 20 or 30 min).The no-boil thing is new to me, at least with respect to brewing beer. If I were going to try anything like that today or in future, I would take care to heat everything up to at least 160 F for at least 10 minutes to kill any nasties --- this is exactly how I make all my ciders and meads, which are award winners. Mead snobs sneer at the idea of heating the honey, but, what can I say, the results are fantastic, I've won a Best of Show for my mead. So I think extract brewing could be no different. I'd heat up to about 160 F for a few minutes (or longer) then it should be sanitized and good to go, no boil required. I would be extremely cautious against not heating portions at all, that is a HUGE risk in my experience. I've had a lot of batches go bad for taking any shortcuts at all similar to this. Don't do it. You can get lucky a dozen times or two, but eventually it will bite you in the ass.
I think we can agree that nearly all of those factors are exacerbated when it is also in a kit.The paragraph in the link I provided also mentioned warehouses and trucks. Was the LME stored correctly at home? Was the LME stored correctly in the warehouse for a short period of time? Was the LME stored correctly during shipping to the house? to the warehouse?
Absolutely, as with any other taste thresholds and response change from person to person, so it's possible that the OP has a higher than average sensitivity to the extract taste which is a combination of thermal loading (both spray drying as well as vacuum evaporation have that issue) as well as oxidation (i.e. freshness).Is it possible that the extract taste is more noticeable to some than others?
After all these years of brewers having issues with stale LME, I wonder why they even use it. If I were brewing extract, I'd be using DME. Is LME cheaper than DME?The interesting questions going forward may be how to store, evaluate, and use the ingredients to get the best beer possible.
1 - LME has suffered less heat stress than DME so that, for example, lighter-colored beers are possibleAfter all these years of brewers having issues with stale LME, I wonder why they even use it.
I couldn't disagree more.1 - LME has suffered less heat stress than DME so that, for example, lighter-colored beers are possible
2 - it's easier to handle as it's not hygroscopic like DME, which means it does not turn into a sticky mess a couple of minutes after you've measured it out
3 - it's easier to add to boiling water without having a boil-over every time
BTW DME goes stale too, it's not immune to aging and oxidation.
I agree in theory, but I've never seen LME, even "fresh-ish" LME that wasn't darker than it should have been. I'm guessing it's because the perfect supply chain doesn't exist. I'm sad when someone hands me an LME hefeweizen or "pale" ale.1 - LME has suffered less heat stress than DME so that, for example, lighter-colored beers are possible
I found DME easier to handle. Certainly easier to separate from its container. With DME, it didn't (doesn't...I still use it for starters) become sticky until it was being dumped into the steamy kettle. I imagine that MMV depending on humidity.2 - it's easier to handle as it's not hygroscopic like DME, which means it does not turn into a sticky mess a couple of minutes after you've measured it out
I didn't experience that. But ok.3 - it's easier to add to boiling water without having a boil-over every time
It's not immune, but I keep my DME (for starters) in sealed containers, from which the air has been "squeezed" out. I don't notice much darkening over time like I've seen with LME.BTW DME goes stale too, it's not immune to aging and oxidation.
you did include PPG, so good comparison.After all these years of brewers having issues with stale LME, I wonder why they even use it. If I were brewing extract, I'd be using DME. Is LME cheaper than DME?
For "fun," I looked up Pilsner DME and LME prices/specs on MoreBeer.
DME: $13.99 for 3 pounds (~ $4.66 per pound), 45 PPG
LME: $10.99 for 3 pounds (~ $3.66 per pound), 35 PPG
($4.66 / pound) ÷ 45 PPG = 10.4 cents per point per gallon
($3.66 / pound) ÷ 35 PPG = 10.5 cents per point per gallon
I'm willing to allow for the possibility that there are local home brew stores that know how to deliver LME-based kits with fresh ingredients.I'll go with all those factors can be exacerbated when it is also in a kit.
That is an interesting idea.Thoughts from an extract brewer;
I think it would be interesting to buy a beer "Kit" in a box and then also buy the exact same as individual ingredients. Then check for dates on said products, brew side by side, might tell us a lot, maybe nothing. That said, I'm sure the big outfits know how DME, hops etc ages. They probably do the best they can to insure even the box kits don't gather too much dust. Some places even claim they make their kits only when ordered.
I haven't seen anyone on HBT that claims to works at (or did) one of these places. Probably is but they don't dare say that they do, the "incoming rounds" would be huge I'm sure.
Also I smoke so I'm sure I miss some flavors that non smokers would call glaring faults.
I know that there is little actual substance in this post Some times I just rattle on,,,
I’m not so sure. Try getting NB to build you something non standard. The only online hbs I’ve ever had build something custom was one out of GA called Aardvark. They’ve been gone for years.except at the LHBSs around here don't have 'pre-made' kits. if someone orders a kit, they're assembled on the spot from ingredients in current inventory.
not sure about online stores, but they can't be any different. don't think they have this many Two-Hearted kits, that many 60 Minute kits ready to be shipped
Must be nice. Mine starts griping as soon as I tell her it's brew day. She starts closing doors and stuffing towels under them. I have to brew in the downstairs laundry room with the interior door closed and the outside door open with a fan running. Regardless of outdoor conditions.One of my favourite pale ale kits is from Steves brew shop. it comes from the recipe that they brewed on basic brewing video on youtube. only has a 15 minute boil and uses specialty grain, lme and dme. it was the first beer I ever brewed. it is also where i found i could not use more then 1/3 well water to brew. i have made it since multiple times using distilled and also spring water and it came out good. i have since created an all grain 60 minute boil recipe based off of it but still brew his extract kit when i just 'have' to brew and it is -10F outside.
a big plus of the 3 gallon kit is I can make it on the kitchen stove and I can use the big stock pot. My wife does not complain about the water dripping off the hood or the smell of the malt and hops.
When I brew all grain and have the wort boiling during the 45min before i start to add the hops i could swear that my wife can smell whatever nastiness is boiled off even though it is in the garage.